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This is therefore the spot where drunken Daisy Buchanan hit and killed Myrtle Wilson in her speeding car after a dizzy and upsetting day at the Plaza Hotel. Fitzgerald described a small edge settlement just east of the valley of ashes where a billboard with blazing eyes advertises the services of eye doctor T. J. Eckleburg, and where Tom Buchanan's mistress Myrtle Wilson's husband George runs a decrepit auto garage. Thank the google gods for bringing me to your blog. Another Litkicks Mystery Spot will be revealed in these pages soon! 22 Alle Kapitel 86 Reviews. Awesome! Checkered Past. Nothing but tough local wildlife lives here; the only sentient creatures in the area are the black dragonflight. The use of the phrase, "shrink away from" does indicate a road that skirts the valley of ashes rather than running through the middle. eBook Shop: Grand Central Publishing: Valley of Ashes von Cornelia Read als Download. Once NYC moved to oil burners and regular trash disposal, there were no more ashes, and then Robert Moses took over the land for the Worlds Fair(s). or. OK, close 0. After traversing many possible solutions to this puzzle, I came to a firm conclusion. Thank you for this fabulous post. Therefore, since Gatsby was set in Fitzgerald's present time, it would allow us to see New York City exactly as Nick Carraway, Jay Gatsby, Daisy Buchanan, Tom Buchanan and Myrtle Wilson would have seen it. The spot where Fitzgerald had a vision would soon become world famous, because the trash burning operation at Flushing Meadows was closed shortly after The Great Gatsby was written. Related Pages. And I love that the irony of sign business being at Dr. Eckleburg's spot. “The Valley of Ashes” is “ a fantastic farm where Ashes grow like wheat into ridges and hills and grotesque gardens” ( Fitzgerald 34). This would make a wonderful addition - it is a site where the characters, places and things of books come to life. Greetings to another Long Islander, Noah - but I do want to clarify that these sand pits were not the sand pits described in "Gatsby". Hands That Kill . See more of Valley of Ashes on Facebook. But doesn't the photo above show that there was also an incinerator on the spot? The 'valley of ashes' lies between Long Island and New York and the Wilsons live on the edge of this area. We're a reggae/rock band coming out of Central California with a unique Ska/Funk/Soul/Hip Hop sound and tons of … The creeks were drained and turned into artificial lakes, and the Long Island Expressway, Van Wyck Expressway and Grand Central Parkway were all built to carry the massive automobile traffic between New York City and Long Island that they still carry today. The valley of ashes One of the settings in this passage is the “valley of ashes” that lies around half way between West egg and New York. Thanks for the post!! Forgot account? But I must throw the cold water of reality on a lot of these theories -- the only possible location of George and Myrtle Wilson's garage is on the eastern shore of Flushing Creek, west of the village of Flushing. The main thing in that area when I was a kid was the Tastee Bread bakery, which was where the Home Depot is now. Since we are now aware that the Valley of Ashes is a region plagued by poverty and hopelessness, the pair of eyes from the billboard may be representing the higher society looking down on the lower class, as they are the ones who possess more power. It ran from Willets Point, through College Point and terminated at Whitestone Landing. Gatsby is one of my all time favorite novels so it was great fun seeing all these old aerial photos and learning about some of the history surrounding the area. It's great to see these images preserved, though I doubt anyone misses the actual ash fields. Hands That Kill . Musician/Band. The Valley of Ashes itself possess a symbolic meaning, as it is representing a very poor region between West egg and East egg, "ashes take the forms of houses and chimneys and rising smoke" (23). Hilfe +49 (0)40 4223 6096 Suche eBooks . Thanks so much for this gem! Did you consider the possibility that Alley Pond ( a glacial valley traversed by Old Northern Blvd and the Pt Washington Branch of the LIRR just a bit further east between Bayside and Little Neck) may also have? Lost Music: Exploring Literary Opera - A New Podcast! Yes, Fitzgerald no doubt took artistic license to create the effect he wanted--i.e., to have Nick and Tom be able to get off an LIRR train and walk quickly to the gas station--100 yards according to the text. Related Pages. This location is close to Douglaston Parkway and Northern Blvd if you want to check the map... Dear Great Necker -- thanks for saying hi. I agree with the post by Wise King that the Alley Pond valley on Northern Blvd perfectly fits the description...There even is an old gas station right near the bridge over the creek with the LIRR running along side for a quarter mile. The description of the valley is of which everything is old and it also shows the ugliness of the valley. Jetzt eBook herunterladen & mit Ihrem Tablet oder eBook Reader lesen. So this ‘dumping ground’ could possibly represent their concern for the poor. Deepens Gatsby on yet another front. The original 1952 New York Times Magazine Article that introduced the phrase "Beat Generation" to the world. The … (Buch (gebunden)) - bei eBook.de The ashes and everything that is covered in it like the houses and cars shows us that the working class has learned to accept the gloomy way in which they live in. Diptychs. MKC. Valley of Ashes (Audio Download): Amazon.co.uk: Cornelia Read, Hillary Huber, Hachette Audio: Books I saw a small auto repair shop. George Gershwin's 'Porgy and Bess' was based on a novel by DuBose Heyward. Shelley Winters as "Daisy?" This is a Valley of Ashes—a fantastic farm where ashes grow like wheat into ridges and hills and grotesque gardens; where ashes take the forms of houses and chimneys and rising smoke and, finally, with a transcendent effort, of men who move dimly and already crumbling through the powdery air. Musician/Band. Rather, it's a perfect description of the railroad just south of Northern Blvd, which then runs right through the valley of ashes. B. Wilson works and lives with his wife, Myrtle. Here's a wider view of the larger area around this bridge crossing. The valley of ashes is bounded on one side by a small foul river, and, when the drawbridge is up to let barges through, the passengers on waiting trains can stare at the dismal scene for as long as half an hour. For reasons not fully clear, the Gatsby/Buchanan motorcade must have not taken Northern Boulevard all the way into Manhattan, but instead must have turned off the main road to take a slightly slower route through less developed streets, exactly as depicted in the lower line drawn in the center of the image at the top of this page. It is a smoldering stretch of valley curving between the hills, with molten flows to the south and a charred plain to the north. Look up "strongs causeway" which ran approximately where the current LIE is, and had a drawbridge over the flushing river about where the unisphere is. No need to register, buy now! Thanks for this. Huge collection, amazing choice, 100+ million high quality, affordable RF and RM images. I lived in College Point from 1959 (year I was born) until 1964. It is interesting how many different areas in Queens have been identified with the descriptions in the Great Gatsby! It is a smoldering stretch of valley curving between the hills, with molten flows to the south and a charred plain to the north. They look out of no face, but, instead, from a pair of enormous yellow spectacles which pass over a non-existent nose” (23). Kurzbeschreibung Geschichte Abenteuer, Drama / P16 James "Jim" Gordon Joker OC (Own Character) 12.12.2015 10.03.2018 47. Excerpts from two publishing memoirs, 'The Business of Books' by the late Andre Schiffrin, and 'My Mistake' by Daniel Menaker. In reality, Northern Blvd (and hence the gas station) and the LIRR Port Washington Branch were about 1/2 mile apart where they crossed Flushing Creek. Looking at the original photos there is nothing special about it at . As a kid we always heard these crazy stories about them that became the stuff of urban legends. It isn't actually made out of ashes, but seems that … thanks for this - it really was fun thinking about this. It helps that The G.G. I can't get enough. The “valley of ashes” is described using the following key phrases: o “a fantastic farm” (23) - “…where ashes grow like wheat into ridges and hills and grotesque gardens” - The valley is described as some kind of a farm with humans instead of animals, people who lead their lives surrounded by everyday griminess, despair and hopelessness. ...The Great Gatsby: Symbolism in The Valley of Ashes The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald has become a literary classic of the 1900's. ", I absolutely love this post; Gatsby is my favourite book. "Why would they have turned off the main road? I had always assumed that the Valley of Ashes was closer to the bridge, most likely Long Island City. I can't tell for sure that it's a drawbridge, but I'm willing to believe it must be one. Also the fact that the Wilsons live in the valley shows that they are not of such high social standards as the other characters in the novel. Musician/Band. It is a desolate industrial wasteland, bounded on one side by "a small foul river". I was especially impressed by your deduction that the troupe veered off the main road which is how they came to be in that particularly desolate section....very good work. By dragging and enlarging the maps, I have to conclude that in 1924 Willets Pt. … Thank you for posting this. by Levi Asher Wednesday, December 4, 2013 06:08 pm. “A fantastic farm where ashes grow like wheat into ridges and hills and grotesque gardens” (Fitzgerald 23) “Grotesque” makes it seem ugly and dreary. The valley is surrounded by inhospitable land, as Dreadmaul Rock lies to the … Members: Alan Zignoto, David Sauter, Kris Abplanalp. It would be in that vicinity, that frontierlike foreboding outpost where automobiles would pass coming on and off the Northern Boulevard coming to and from Manhattan to the estates on Long Island Sound. It represents the moral and social decay that results from the uninhibited pursuit of wealth, as the rich indulge themselves with regard for nothing but their own pleasure. This location symbolizes moral decay as it's filled with ash from the city's industry, … Just east of CitiField, the Billie Jean King Tennis Center and the Van Wyck Expressway in Flushing, Queens is the exact spot where several scenes in F. Scott Fitzgerald's "Great Gatsby" would have taken place. To fully understand what does the Valley of Ashes symbolize we shall walk through so many layers of symbols that are installed into every description of this place.In “The Great Gatsby” the Valley of Ashes is everything that is not the world of the riches. 21 Alle Kapitel 86 Reviews. Never read it in high school either, I hated books back then. Thanks! The Valley of Ashes separates West Egg from New York City. Valley of Ashes contains members of endless Kentucky sound miners including Sapat (forthcoming LP on Siltbreeze), Virgin Eye Blood Brothers, Raw Thug, Kark and the Magick Markers." Cornelia Read: Valley of Ashes - Sprache: Englisch. by Levi Asher Monday, February 27, 2012 07:52 pm. Here's what the same spot looks like in an aerial photograph from 2009. Being I was at such a young age, those eyeglasses obviously made quite the impression on me that I never forgot them. I do note cribbing to protect the bridge piers from watercraft and some boats moored south of the bridge, but question whether these would require a bridge lift to pass under. That's amazing. By the same token, the bridge wasn't necessarily a drawbridge in real life either (though it could have been). Performing Arts. Thanks for all your investigatory work! The valley of ashes was the narrow channel through which the railroad traveler had to pass on his way between New York City and the resort villages of East and West Egg on the North Shore of Long Island. Zum Hauptinhalt wechseln.de Hallo, Anmelden. Musician/Band. Rather, the sign-maker might have been constructing the sign, or may have been displaying it to advertise his work. The two men proceed to a car repair garage owned by George Wilson, a "spiritless man" who is also Myrtle's husband. In the story, Fitzgerald makes the southern route the "main" route, simply because it works better in his story. 107.865. The 'valley of ashes' lies between Long Island and New York and the Wilsons live on the edge of this area. He might have made that up too, in order to keep the characters in his book bound by the Valley of Ashes, forced to look upon the dregs of society (literally) as they pass from one life of opulence to another. Bestseller Neuerscheinungen Preishits ² … My family used to visit a friend who lived in Flushing and I remember that If you made a left turn to go to the White Stone Expressway, there was a building across from the entrance ramp, on the corner of the right side of the street (32nd Ave) that was either a doctor or an eye glass place because they used to have a huge pair of neon eyeglasses (blue) on the top of the building. It was in the valley of ashes that Nick first meets Tom's mistress, Myrtle Wilson. Myrtle, a … Signers. The Valley of Ashes[59, 50] is an area in the Burning Steppes. The valley is also known … or. by Eamon Loingsigh Wednesday, February 26, 2014 09:58 am. That is interesting about Tastee Bread bakery, didn't know that. Chapter 2 begins with a description of the valley of ashes, a desolate and forsaken expanse of formerly developed land that marks the intersection of the city with the suburbs. by Levi Asher Thursday, November 7, 2013 08:54 pm. Today it's still a vision of busy desolation, an unremarkable small and wedge-shaped industrial center next to the Van Wyck Expressway where, significantly enough, a large sign-making business is in operation. Neat! Terrible book. So I would have to agree with David Fox's opinion that Fitzgerald used artistic license in describing the route through the dumps which would have to have been along Northern Blvd.. Even more powerful then the rich, these eyes may perhaps symbolize God surveying his people who are struggling and judging those (middle/upper class) who ignore those in need and allow them to live in such harsh conditions. if in the novel it states that one would need to wait for a draw bridge , then the there are only two possibles - 1 . Trying to trace the route between Great Neck and Manhattan as described in The Great Gatsby, I sketched a line showing the Northern Boulevard route on the map at the top of this page. I really like how you added F. Scott Fitzgerald’s use of descriptive phrases within your blog post, it really helps with the meaning behind the post itself on how poverty not only negatively affects people’s income but as well as their social image. The fourth and oldest passage was a causeway built near Jewel Avenue for vehicles. The infernal vision seemed to provide an ironic counterpoint to the opulent social swirls of New York City and Great Neck, as if the passage revealed some deeper truth about the souls who traveled it. I knew the story of Gatsby, as a tale told in cars, driving past fancy mansions, long before I was ready to read the book. Levi I just read an article about another desolate but inhabited area that exists only twenty five miles from NYC, and is populated by a people called variously the Jackson Whites or the Ramapough Mountain Indians. Thanks for posting! if you were driving west to NYC at that time you would need to wait at either of these , before crossing over into corona or coming back east from NYC . 26) -MS this confrontation of Tom and George shows how the rich look down on the poor … I almost instantly felt the change in tone when Nick began describing the Valley of Ashes and the atmosphere while reading had completely changed. Those of us who grew up in the area and played as children on the grounds of the abandoned Gold Coast estates are not confused as to the location of the Valley of the Ashes. Forgot account? But, that location where Douglaston Parkway meets Northern Boulevard is miles east of Flushing Creek, and therefore is nowhere near the Valley of Ashes! This is a valley of ashes -- a fantastic farm where ashes grow like wheat into ridges and hills and grotesque gardens; where ashes take the forms of houses and chimneys and rising smoke and, finally, with a transcendent effort, of men who move dimly and already crumbling through the powdery air. This location symbolizes moral decay as it's filled with ash from the city's industry, as … I am not aware that there were any roads a private person could use to go south after crossing the Northern Boulevard Bridge to view the ashes. It was a brick building which today I believe is Graphical Print-32-01 College Point Blvd, Flushing, NY 11354. Revolution. 671 Minuten. Many translated example sentences containing "valley of ashes" – Spanish-English dictionary and search engine for Spanish translations. I'm a Gatsby aficionado, and I also happened to grow up in Elmhurst, Queens. I began investigating the real-life setting of some key scenes in F. Scott Fitzgerald's The Great Gatsby after discovering an amazing new online historical map of New York City, a photographic mashup that allows you to see detailed images from 1924, 1951 and the present time. Tom chats briefly with Wilson about business matters. LIRR through the dumps and crossed the creek at Northern Blvd. Unfortunately, I suspect that one of the landmarks of the Valley of Ashes, the eyes billboard, was likely fiction. (eBook epub) - bei eBook.de. You don't hear much about the film, so maybe the critics didn't like it, but I thought it was great! Good research and interesting thoughts. This is a great analysis of Myrtle's last journey. A valley of ashes, perhaps. by Levi Asher Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:26 am. Negative diction and repetition are effectively used by Scott Fitzgerald, as they clearly develop atmosphere and mood of the reader. "A White ashen dust veiled his dark suit and his pale hair as it veiled … It would be nice if someone would recreate this billboard near Northern Boulevard in Flushing where it could be seen in the Citifield area. Log In. MKC. I found this to be done very well, because the author’s use of literary devices were not too hard to understand, which allowed me as a reader to clearly understand his message. Anzeigen Anzeigeoptionen Review schreiben Regelverstoß melden Schriftgröße Schriftart Ausrichtung Zeilenabstand Zeilenbreite Kontrast kleiner größer Standard Source Sans (Standard) Times Arial Verdana Linksbündig Blocksatz kleiner größer … You know, that people would venture into their enclave to never return, etc. A search for P. G. Wodehouse's grave on Long Island, New York. I saw a couple of rundown coffee and fried-egg breakfast/lunch cafes, where the people who work in the nearby factory take their breaks. The working class has no choice because it is the only way they can get by in the 1920's society. Sure, nywanderer -- if you look at this follow-up blog post you'll see this Google Maps link that pinpoints my best guess as to the actual location of George Wilson's garage. The key choices of words to describe this area are “powdery air”, “impenetrable cloud”, “paint less days” and of course “ash”, which is the powdery residue that is left after something is burned or destroyed  and it is repeated throughout Nick’s description of the Valley of Ashes. That is, they didn't take the most direct route between Great Neck and Manhattan, but instead detoured slightly south through Flushing, allowing them to drive directly through the most vivid section of the trash-burning operation. I hope you find something you fancy, be it a classic or a piece of long-lost ephemera. The book has sort of mythical, fairy tale status for me, because of that. Declaration of Independence. Let us look at the first time Nick and Tom enter the Valley. https://thegreatgatsbysandm.blogspot.com/2011/05/valley-of-ashes.html Thank you! A Madeline Dare Novel (Book 4) Thanks for Sharing! I am willing to believe you that the bridge I'm proposing as the Gatsby bridge is not a drawbridge. I spent my early childhood on Rodman St in Queens (across from the then 1939 World's Fair Grounds) and afterwards 10 miles east near Mineola with frequent trips to Port Washington/East Egg (where my Grandfather would come by boat from the Bronx and pick us up for a day of fishing). Really great research and comments all around. (Fitzgerald 23). I would like to know more about the history of sign companies in this neighborhood - I was intrigued by the fact that there was a whole area designated "Sign City" which indicates that there may have been more than one sign company in the area. The only dream the inhabitants of the Valley are capable for is to get out of that place as fast as possible. 20 Alle Kapitel 86 Reviews. by Tara Olmsted Friday, September 26, 2014 09:35 am. Isn't it clear that the trash-burning took place exactly where the smokestack is? About half way between West Egg and New York the motor road hastily joins the railroad and runs beside it for a quarter of a mile, so as to shrink away from a certain desolate area of land. When I read the Great Gatsby in High School (probably 1964), I was fascinated by his descriptions of that part of Queens in the 1920's. Konto und Listen Anmelden Konto und Listen Warenrücksendungen und Bestellungen. did meet the railroad. Here, then, is the bridge they would have crossed. If you're trying to analyze F. Scott Fitzgerald's jazz age novel 'The Great Gatsby' and you're not thinking about Dante's 'Inferno', you're missing an obvious connection. See more of Valley of Ashes on Facebook. Checkered Past. I grew up on the North Shore of LI in 50s and 60s and we only took Northern Boulevard when we went into the City. A photo journey through Willets Point and Flushing Meadows to the house in Great Neck where F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote "The Great Gatsby". Blvd. 63 talking about this. Performing Arts. ( Log Out /  Evidently some wild wag of an oculist set them there to fatten his practice in the borough of Queens, and then sank down himself into eternal blindness, or forgot them and moved away. … Desolate enough? You submitted the following rating and review. There can be different valid theories about where exactly the garage would have been, and maybe my specific theory above could be wrong. Nick begins his description of it as follows:. The Great Gatsby Might not be any connection at all, but it did make me curious! It is build on a toxic site of waste from a former Ford plant and an abandoned mine. The Valley of Ashes is the grim underside of New York, where their waste is discarded. The description of the Valley of Ashes lies in the first few paragraphs of Chapter 2 in the Great Gatsby. Occasionally a line of gray cars crawls along an invisible track, gives out a ghastly … The Valley of Ashes is an important aspect of the novel, The Great Gatsby, because it emphasizes on the lifestyle differences between the grey-stricken working class and the golden wealthy. I grew upon LI during the 50's, and I'm painfully aware of how much historical geography there has vanished during my own lifetime. What else? They probably had the same amazing visual affect, but it's always been widely acknowledged that Fitzgerald was writing about the operations on Flushing Creek. Not Now. Maybe this was brought up, but there was a Whitestone spur of the LIRR that was operating until 1932. Change ), You are commenting using your Facebook account. Thanks for all your research. There was no commercial or industrial trash burning facility in the valley of ashes, was simply an as dump for the millions of tons of ashes that were produced in NYC as a result of coal burning(pre oil burners) and ash from incinerators(remember those days)? the valley of ashes is found between West Egg and New York City, however in contrast to East and West Egg's rich preeminent society, the valley of ashes is where the … This book, set in the 1920's, takes place in Long Island Sound and New York. Cold Hate02 Beatdown℗ 2699184 Records DKReleased on: 2021-01-10Auto-generated by YouTube. This simply further describes the region as a perished land. Fitzgerald did not stay in Great Neck, rather he resided on Lands End, currently known as Sands Point and referenced as East Egg in his novel. The Valley of Ashes is a remote, barren wasteland located between the two Eggs and New York. Kohle, Teer, Bourbon-Whiskey, Tabak, zitrische Noten, Rauch, Leder, Schmieröl, verbrannter Gummi, Benzin, Gewürznelke, Birkenteer, … Valley of Ashes. Hot fresh premieres from the best rappers. Anyway, I wanted to give you another possibility for your above quote. Valley of Ashes is a low-income area between West Egg and New York City that consists of a long stretch of desolate land created by the dumping of industrial ashes. Check it out. Years ago I was searching for remnants of the old College Point and Flushing (I was born in Flushing). Cornelia Read: Valley of Ashes - Large Print. I really wasn't expecting to like the movie very much. Unfortunately, detailed insurance maps of the period often show proposed streets, none of which were ever built in the Valley of the Ashes. Was YesterdayWitness to a decaying billboard that calls attention to itself Neuerscheinungen ²! Ashes and the former shea Stadium parking lot are found today 2, James Joyce 's 'Ulysses ' was on... 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Years later be wrong commenting using your Facebook account immigrants in Brooklyn in,. Another layer to the railroad and highway would have merged exactly as in! A … Valley of Ashes railroad bridges, a truly sad situation and a causeway... For destruction and death unlike the ash Valley of Ashes - Laufzeit ca really was n't necessarily a.! Publishing memoirs, 'The business of books ' by the green light third to! And Manhattan—serves as a perished land below or click an icon to Log:! Make sense my readings, there were two railroad bridges, a vehicular bridge most. Photos of the trash-burning operation huge collection, amazing choice, 100+ million high quality, affordable and... Be any connection at all necessarily a drawbridge, but the sign company has only been there maybe years! Brick building which today I believe is Graphical Print-32-01 College Point and at! 'M fascinated, like a teenager been ) love Thomas Pynchon is statistically nearly impossible look out of face! 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Eckleburg are blue and gigantic—their irises are one yard.... Wife, Myrtle Wilson in the photo Magazine Article that introduced the phrase `` Generation. Would be nice if someone would recreate this billboard near Northern Boulevard moved... Turned off the main factory makes signs -- large mounted billboards, specialty plastic displays bei Valley... Above show that there was also an incinerator on the 1924 photos,! 1964-65 Worlds Fair route on a smaller road south of that Read book. Veteran 's day, this is a person 's life or health really worth,. The annual book festival in downtown Brooklyn 's life or health really?. Displaying it to advertise his work this puzzle, I hated books back then stories about them that the. That 's partially correct valley of ashes but the IRT Flushing line ( now the 7 train ) that runs that. Of urban legends put up some photos of the tiny edge settlement itself, railroad! Convey symbolism book 4 ) thanks for this research -- it 's almost eerie looking in on Fitzgerald day! 7 train ) that runs above that Street was completed in 1928 September,. Exact spot on the photo where the people who work in the Valley of Ashes 's mistress,.. People who work in the fictionalized world of the baseball fields Broadway ) of! Represent their concern for the Port Washington branch of the area in the 1920 society... Spot will be revealed in these pages soon Frank Farrell - I agree that Flushing was. In 1928 addition - it is a valid key to this, as it is interesting about Bread. Very interesting to see these images preserved, though I doubt anyone misses the actual ash.! The eye Doctor mentioned in Gatsby????????... Yes, Strong 's causeway is a remote, barren wasteland located between West Egg Manhattan—serves. Was Great medical Association around 1981 main road that he might have too took this southern route, simply it. “ the Great Gatsby parents ' car and try to do the drive myself make a wonderful addition - is... That the Valley of Ashes, the bridge I 'm a Gatsby aficionado and. Roosevelt Avenue did not yet run all the way to Flushing the author to convey symbolism,! Were curious about the Jackson Whites them that became the stuff of urban legends merged exactly described. Facebook account but there was also an incinerator on the spot tours through east! His Name valley of ashes YesterdayWitness to a Dying World℗ 2008 NoneReleased on: by. Junkyard/Smelting town called Vulcan-something Mistake ' by the same fascinated, like a teenager from Willets Point, through Point...

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